Dr Dread
Staff 
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Feb 20, 2006 16:50:21 GMT -5
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Post by brigante133 on Feb 20, 2006 17:14:02 GMT -5
cool.
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Post by Romans Empire on Feb 20, 2006 17:14:52 GMT -5
I had to vote: Not really interested. It takes a lot for me to pick up a Batman book outside of the ongoing. There was a time right after the first movie that DC started to push the Bat in A LOT of mini's and one-shots. I kept up for almost ten years until I reached total Batman burn out.I don't think there has been a really good Batman story in a long time and Frank Miller on Batman just doesn't do it for me anymore!
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Post by Brandon on Feb 20, 2006 17:42:12 GMT -5
I might get it. Depends on the format and price tag. Maybe on word of mouth too. I've been a little burned by Miller on Batman lately so this one doesn't fall into the "must have" category anymore.
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Post by darkknightdetec on Feb 20, 2006 17:44:42 GMT -5
I really think it's a disgrace to bring comics back down to the level of cheap propaganda like they were in the 1940s. Some mention of the current war we are facing overseas may be okay, but I really can't believe that DC even accepted Miller's proposal. I see this as a step down for comics. Comics are finally being realized again as a true art form, but comics like this don't help their reputation among the public. We all know that Batman could single-handedly destroy all of Al-Quida, because he has done similar things to the League of Assassins. Keep the real stuff in the real world.
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Post by starlord on Feb 20, 2006 18:10:39 GMT -5
I had heard that they were going to do this and was turned off by the entire thing. I like the idea of social issue's in comics, probably part of the reason I'm a huge Green Arrow fan, but this just seems wrong on so many levels.
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Post by cheshire on Feb 21, 2006 16:40:26 GMT -5
This story line was mentioned on my radio station, my radio station has never talked about comics before so obviously this is causing an up roar not just in the comic world. I don't think it's right that they do this. Like it was said before, keep the real world the real world and comics the comics. Soon, they'll be turning comics into the real world and we'll have super heroes and super villains on our hands. *sigh*
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joker51087
Full Member
Aren't they a nice couple?
Posts: 113
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Post by joker51087 on Feb 21, 2006 18:07:18 GMT -5
I read about this a while ago on another site, but I didn't think it was real. I agree with darkknightdetec that this takes comics down to a level they got away from, and it seems wrong to do it in general. I'm not going to be buying it.
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Post by brigante133 on Feb 22, 2006 0:25:51 GMT -5
it is not a serious attempt at propoganda because if it were it would not call itself that... geeeeez you guys, its not going to warp minds and stuff like that, its going to mimick the conventions of those propoganda stuff. you think when miller proposed writing a dark and gritty batman back in the eighties everyone was all for it? i bet not everyone when they first heard said, "oh yes, this will revolutionize comics as we know it" but it did. Now I am not saying this is going to bring upon a second coming of "propoganda comics" but it should do what millers stuff has been doing since then, telling good stories. who cares that everyone might not like it or will not buy it? certainly not me, i have a hard enough time getting ahold of his stuff in the first place. i cannot wait, it looks fantastic.
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joker51087
Full Member
Aren't they a nice couple?
Posts: 113
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Post by joker51087 on Feb 22, 2006 17:35:35 GMT -5
You know what, maybe I was a little hasty and didn't think this through. I didn't think that by calling it propaganda directly meant anything, but it makes more sense now. I still don't know if I'll buy it or not. With IC and 52, I don't know if I can afford it.
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Post by giantevilhead on Feb 24, 2006 2:04:12 GMT -5
I first heard about this on Leno. I'm really not sure about this. With Hitler and the Soviets there were some crazy mysterious stuff in real life they could work with. The Nazis had their occult and their eugenics and the Soviets had spies and their superweapons. What does Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden have?
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Post by brigante133 on Feb 24, 2006 2:13:09 GMT -5
Ummm....
lets see....
queda...
oh right,
TERRORISTS!!!
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Post by giantevilhead on Feb 24, 2006 3:04:33 GMT -5
There's nothing mysterious or unnatural with terrorists. The Nazis and Soviets were doing all sorts of mysterious, unnatural, and sometimes supernatural things in real life. Al Qaeda has nothing in real life that's comparable to the stuff the Nazis and Soviets did.
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Post by brigante133 on Feb 24, 2006 12:50:39 GMT -5
well thats why it wont be supernatural huh?
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Feb 24, 2006 15:30:11 GMT -5
There's nothing mysterious or unnatural with terrorists. The Nazis and Soviets were doing all sorts of mysterious, unnatural, and sometimes supernatural things in real life. Al Qaeda has nothing in real life that's comparable to the stuff the Nazis and Soviets did. Really? The thing about terrorists, is that they could be anyone. They are hiding in plain sight, invisible by anonymity. That is something the nazis nor soviets ever had. The terrorists' primary weapon is fear. Who better than Batman, who preys upon the cowardly superstitions of criminals, to detect terrorists? |
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Post by giantevilhead on Feb 25, 2006 1:40:39 GMT -5
The Nazis and the Soviets had spies, which were superior in every way to today's terrorists. Nazi and Soviet spies were far better trained at infiltration, espionage, assassination, and terrorism than any terrorist Al Qaeda has. Especially with the KGB, they built entire towns modeled after American cities and filled with actors to train their spies. About half of what the Soviets knew about nukes was stolen from the United States by spies. Heck, the Chinese are stealing military secrets, especially nuclear secrets from the US today. Kennedy even believed that the Soviets snucked a nuke into their embassy in Washington D.C.
Oh and I could I forget about the Red Scare. The climate of fear created by the threat of communist infiltration was far worse than what we've seen since 9/11.
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Post by brigante133 on Feb 25, 2006 3:04:18 GMT -5
but you forget one thing, frank miller isnt using them so it doesnt really matter how superior they were. and that is not to say that todays terrorists are better or worse than the super powers of the past, they are just different, we can leave it at that.
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Feb 25, 2006 9:15:39 GMT -5
The Nazis and the Soviets had spies, which were superior in every way to today's terrorists. Sorry, I disagree. Spies are better trained, yes; but their purpose is completely different. The three main functions of a spy are: 1. Gather intelligence 2. Sabotage 3. Incite political upheaval Spies don't attach explosives to themselves in an attempt to kill as many civilians as possible. During the cold war, there was a lot of fear and paranoia on both sides. By the mid-80s, Moscow beleived the US had the Star Wars defense system working and in orbit. How many American civilians were killed on US soil by the Soviets? |
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Post by giantevilhead on Feb 25, 2006 15:15:53 GMT -5
Spies don't blow themselves up to hurt civilians because they don't need to. They're too well trained to resort to such tactics. Spies know full well how to create terror but they do it in a more efficient way. Spies attack military and industrial targets, assassinate important public and political figures, which can do more damage to a country's infrastructure as well as spread terror.
The main difference between spies and today's terrorists other than the fact that spies are better trained is that spies are loyal to nations while terrorists are loyal to crazed fanatics. Nations have rules of engagement, fanatics do not. Terrorists can strike at any time but spies can only do the big stuff (assassinating important political figures, bombing government buildings) when there’s a war. If we had a real war with the Soviets, even if it wasn’t a nuclear one, we really would have been screwed because the KGB had infiltrated so many places, especially in Europe.
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Feb 25, 2006 19:58:56 GMT -5
I don't want to go into a big discussion here about terrorists and spies (it's starting to sound like that pirate vs ninja banality). However, one thing to address: Terrorists can strike at any time but spies can only do the big stuff (assassinating important political figures, bombing government buildings) when there’s a war. In Afganistan, Iraq and even as close as Canada, terrorists have killed political leaders. As for no terrorist bombing buildings (government or otherwise)? There are all too many examples of that happening on US soil in the past ten years. |
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Post by brigante133 on Feb 25, 2006 22:56:33 GMT -5
pirate vs ninjas... that sounds oddly familiar...
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Post by giantevilhead on Feb 25, 2006 23:18:18 GMT -5
I don't want to go into a big discussion here about terrorists and spies (it's starting to sound like that pirate vs ninja banality). However, one thing to address: Terrorists can strike at any time but spies can only do the big stuff (assassinating important political figures, bombing government buildings) when there’s a war. In Afganistan, Iraq and even as close as Canada, terrorists have killed political leaders. As for no terrorist bombing buildings (government or otherwise)? There are all too many examples of that happening on US soil in the past ten years. I never said that terrorists can't do that stuff, simply that spies can cause far more damage. We are simply lucky that we have never witnessed the potential chaos well trained KGB spies with advanced technology, biological, chemical weapons, and suit case nukes can cause. |
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Post by l1701e on May 2, 2006 20:50:21 GMT -5
Didn't Miller himself say that this whole thing he's doing is intended to be propaganda?  |
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Post by brigante133 on May 2, 2006 20:54:10 GMT -5
he said its in vein of the old propoganda comics. i wouldnt be surprised if there was something else in there beyond, "hate al queda"
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Post by chris on May 3, 2006 5:26:18 GMT -5
Sounds like crap.
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Post by HoM on May 3, 2006 5:51:10 GMT -5
Frank Miller is one cool joe. I'll pick this up, because, what the hell... Looks alright.
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Quester
Staff
Call me 'Q'!
Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on May 3, 2006 6:28:50 GMT -5
I hate the idea that comics should be kept in comic world. As a reader I want to beleive something that could possibly happen....fantasy realsim...magical realism...whatever you want to call it, you know its not real and yet you want it to be so that you can be part of it. I think the idea is kinda cool coz when I watched the clip it felt sorta tongue in cheek. He knows he's not allowed to do it and so does which seems to be Miller's thing and he is one of the people who can pull good stories from this kinda stuff. I think it is supposed to be a premise of a 1940's book and looking at it with a big grin on its face saying that was stupid...lets do it again coz it will be funny to mock that style of writing. Wont pick it up though, its to difficult to get hold of new stuff without paying a fortune on Amazon or all of your life savings on MileHighComics
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Post by brigante133 on May 3, 2006 10:17:22 GMT -5
depending on the price, i may get it. if its gonna be a tpb instead of issue by issue, i will DEFINITELY get it.
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Post by timdrake on May 7, 2006 13:42:32 GMT -5
I think it looks interesting, and I've been enjoying AS Batman and Robin so I'll definately pick it up.
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Post by starlord on Aug 23, 2006 14:20:15 GMT -5
This was a statement made by Grant Morrison during an interview with Newsarama. Thought some of you may be interested in the comment.
GM: And while we're on that subject...Batman vs. Al Qaeda! It might as well be Bin Laden vs. King Kong! Or how about the sinister Al Qaeda mastermind up against a hungry Hannibal Lecter! For all the good it's likely to do. Cheering on a fictional character as he beats up fictionalized terrorists seems like a decadent indulgence when real terrorists are killing real people in the real world. I'd be so much more impressed if Frank Miller gave up all this graphic novel nonsense, joined the Army and, with a howl of undying hate, rushed headlong onto the front lines with the young soldiers who are actually risking life and limb 'vs' Al Qaeda.
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